will
President of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters
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Post by will on Dec 28, 2013 21:35:40 GMT -5
The film improved on the second watch for me as well. I was able to notice more of how the songs were used. That Gloria bit was quite funny. I also started craving for a few scenes to be extended if only for a few seconds. Sometimes it felt that we moved on from scenes too quickly. Of course, that did create a breathless feeling that if I don't pay attention I'll miss something. The scene on the yacht remains for me one of the highlights of the film. Kyle Chandler was solid and Rob Reiner was hilarious especially in his first scene. Kenneth Choi, Matthew McConaughey, and Jean Dujardin stood out with their small screen times. I was hoping Cristin Milioti would get more to do but she was solid with what she had, same with Joanna Lumley. This was pretty much how I saw the cast, too. Although I may have liked Chandler more and Lumley less than you. I think they would have both benefited with just a tad more screentime. Perhaps it's silly to make a distinction between comedic and dramatic acting, but I'll use it to say that I thought Leo was better during the speeches (even though those were not my favorite scenes) and during the last scenes, because I could see his "dramatic" process of stacking layers underneath the words he was speaking. I could see depth, whereas in most of the other scenes I could feel him playing them for comedy and staying on the surface. or after Jordan's first speech when the camera rushes through the crowd then twists around the other direction, or the first Quaalude scene with Hill moving slowmo behind Leo's head were fantastic. Really liked the camera moving away, although not exactly "away"... And the choreography for Hill up until he smashes his shoe on the table. Now I get that third poster!
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will
President of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters
Posts: 502
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Post by will on Dec 28, 2013 21:51:16 GMT -5
BTW, another major audience reaction was when half the audience goes "oooohhhhh noooooo" when Jordan and Emma go in for the kiss, while the other half goes "ooohhhhhh yeeeeessssss." I also found it interesting that Scorsese uses that sitcom schtick of internal dialogues. He does it about four times, ie, "Is he coming on to me?" and "Is she coming on to me?" I liked the use of internal dialogue. A lot It worked the best in the Saurel scene. Leo was great there. Too bad we had bad subtitles during the Lumley scene (and elsewhere), as I think it distracted the audience quite a bit and much of the scene's effect was missed. As for audience reactions, they remained the same the second time around. There was also the "yeah, right... as if" when Leo is on the floor and looks to the steps in from him that he has to climb down. The "oh no" when the yellow post-it resurfaces. And again people really laughed when Belfort is arrested after he exits the helicopter and it is all shown through video, which I didn't find that funny. I noticed on the second go-round that Edward Herrmann played the "Gene Hackman" role. But I see it already listed on IMDb. Was De Niro in the film after all?
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Post by arnzilla on Dec 29, 2013 0:02:21 GMT -5
Nope, just the uncredited cameo in American Hustle. Spike Jonze did the same stunt in TWOWS.
Saw it for the third time at tonight's 7pm show. Full house that holds 400. Nas was right about repeated viewings dampening/overpowering the humor. One main reason is, of course, that the humor is no longer a surprise. But the slapstick telephone cord fight is still the funniest thing I've seen in a while.
I think "Hey Leroy" works so well because the sound drops out except for the lead vocals over the pandemonium at Stratton over Steve Madden. Plus, there's that crane forward and backward accompanying it. Mrs. Robinson continues from the FBI raid into Belfort's bus ride to prison and through Denham's subway ride home. Like will, I appreciated the songs more on repeated viewings and agree on "Gloria."
Anyone catch the Steve Buscemi cameo? I caught it the first time. BTW, I liked the "Freaks" reference.
One more thing about lack of continuity as a style vs. mismatched cuts. After Jordan and Naomi have sex for the last time, they get out of bed fully clothed. I think that's just Marty and Thelma quickening the pace and/or the rhythm. A mismatched cut that I finally noticed was when Teresa slams the limo door twice.
And the final shot... those people looking back at Jordan at his New Zealand seminar want to be just like him, and Scorsese is clearly frowning on them.
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Post by arnzilla on Dec 29, 2013 2:02:43 GMT -5
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nas78
President of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters
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Post by nas78 on Dec 29, 2013 8:40:56 GMT -5
My Top 10 Most Memorable Scenes (In no particular order) 1. Leo+McC scene (Bonkers) 2. Leo`s dancing (Amazeballs) 3. Leo`s crawling scene (Jerry Lewis must be proud) 4. Jonah jerking off to Margot in front of everyone (Inappropriate but understandable) 5. Leo+Kyle`s scene (Like a chess game from 2 masters) 6. Leo`s 2nd big speech (Scary. Almost fascist.) 7. The shaving of the woman`s head (One of the nastiest scenes i`ve ever seen in my life) 8. Belfort rapes, then beats his wife, snorts coke and then crashes his car with his child on board. (Ugly, ugly stuff) 9. Belfort`s arrest on camera (Reality TV before there was a reality TV) 10. The last scene (Nothing really changed. And that`s the most important statement of the film. A real punch in the stomach)
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kim
Mafioso
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Post by kim on Dec 29, 2013 12:34:43 GMT -5
This improved more on rewatch I still think a few scenes ran on for too long but the first 2 hours just went by so fast that the length was not really a problem for me. Plus the last act was crucial to adding so many different shades to the story. I'd probably give it a B grade or so. Scorsese's direction is fantastic, and he is a great actor's director for sure. Not one weak link in the cast, but just like will, I wish Kyle Chandler, Cristin Milioti, and Joanna Lumley's roles had been beefed up.
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Post by arnzilla on Dec 29, 2013 15:45:25 GMT -5
Harry Knowles (of all people) wrote something smart: "Scorsese isn’t here to judge. He’s here to reveal."
And to those of you who are on the fence about the oft-repeated theory that TWOWS is part of a trilogy, consider this...
Henry Hill: "For us to live any other way was nuts. To us, those goody-good people who worked shitty jobs for bum paychecks, who took the subway to work every day and worried about their bills, were dead. They were suckers. They had no balls."
Ace Rothstein: "In the casino, the cardinal rule is to keep them playing and keep them coming back. The longer they play, the more they lose. In the end, we get it all."
Jordan Belfort: "And if anyone here thinks I'm crazy, get the fuck out and get a job at McDonald’s, because that's where you fucking belong! But before you depart this room full of winners, I want you to take a good look at the person next to you, because one day in the not-so-distant future, you'll be sitting at a red light in your beat-up old Pinto, and that person’s gonna pull up in a brand new Porsche, with their gorgeous young wife at their side. And who will you be next to? Some ugly beast with three days of razor-stubble in a sleeveless moo-moo, crammed in next to you with a carload of groceries from the fucking Price Club!"
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nas78
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Post by nas78 on Dec 30, 2013 5:53:30 GMT -5
My Top 10 Most Memorable Lines (In no particular order) 1. ''We accept him. One of us'' (I`ve used that line from ''Freaks'' many times in my personal life too. It`s cool) 2. ''You have my money taped to your boobs. Technically you do work for me'' (He has a point there) 3. ''Well, when you sail on a boat fit for a bond villain, sometimes you need to play the part, right?'' (Smartass) 4. ''Move the money from your client’s pocket into your pocket.'' (Welcome to capitalism) 5. ''Fugazy, fugasi, it’s a wazi it’s a woozy, it’s fssss fairy dust. It doesn`t exist'' ( That is so true. But the destroyed lives are real and do exist) 6. ''I want u to be fucking terrorists'' (And they are exactly that. Back then and now. Unfortunately) 7. ''I fucked her brains out...for 11 seconds'' (We`ve all been there buddy) 8. ''Mommy is sick and tired of wearing panties'' (Crikey) 9. ''Sell me this pen'' (That sums up everything that is wrong in our capitalistic/consumerist/materialistic societies) 10. ''Halkidiki?'' (Yes please. I`ve eaten those many many times. Delicious olives)
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Post by arnzilla on Dec 30, 2013 9:08:24 GMT -5
2. ''You have my money taped to your boobs. Technically you do work for me'' (He has a point there) It's tits. Boobs is only used for the trailer.
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nas78
President of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters
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Post by nas78 on Dec 30, 2013 18:29:57 GMT -5
Arnz tits? Donnie said tits? Really? Hmmm...My bad... I have 3 questions. 3 things didn`t make any sense to me. 1. Why did Donnie and Brad do the briefcase exchange in a public place? Why didn`t they just do it in a private place where it would be much safier? 2. Why Belfort had to go to Switzerland after aunt`s death. The swiss banker had all ready forged aunt`s signature. Couldn`t he do it with Belfort`s signature too? Or even couldn`t the swiss banker sent the necessary paper work to Belfort to sign them and Belfort sent them back by a fax or something? 3. Why didn`t Belfort throw away the yellow paper he shown to Donnie? Furthermore how did the FBI got it in their hands? Please feel free to clarify them for me if u can...
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Post by arnzilla on Dec 30, 2013 19:18:09 GMT -5
Playing devil's advocate here... 1. Why did Donnie and Brad do the briefcase exchange in a public place? Why didn`t they just do it in a private place where it would be much safier? The FBI might have had Donnie and Brad's house bugged? 2. Why Belfort had to go to Switzerland after aunt`s death. The swiss banker had all ready forged aunt`s signature. Couldn`t he do it with Belfort`s signature too? Or even couldn`t the swiss banker sent the necessary paper work to Belfort to sign them and Belfort sent them back by a fax or something? Nutty Swiss law? 3. Why didn`t Belfort throw away the yellow paper he shown to Donnie? Furthermore how did the FBI got it in their hands? Donnie covered it with his cloth napkin and likely had self-preservation in mind, probably putting the whole thing in his pocket in exchange for leniency.
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will
President of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters
Posts: 502
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Post by will on Dec 30, 2013 19:52:23 GMT -5
Also, on No.3... Belfort probably would not have wanted it with him for one moment longer, in case they searched him after the dinner. He though leaving it on the table for Azoff to throw away was safer.
Nas, I'm not good with lists, but thanks for posting yours. I'll try top 3 cameos: 1. Spike Jonze 2. Bo Dietl 3. Fran Lebowitz
I also want to ask something... hopefully I won't offend anyone in the process. What did you think of the two women that were not part of Belfort's crazy world... the judge ('Honorary Samantha Stogel') and 'Rochelle Applebaum' and the choice to be portrayed by actresses who in terms of exterior appearance are in contrast to actresses playing other female characters in the film? Also, how would the hair-shaving scene fit in all of that, if at all?
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Post by arnzilla on Dec 30, 2013 20:35:37 GMT -5
I also want to ask something... hopefully I won't offend anyone in the process. What did you think of the two women that were not part of Belfort's crazy world... the judge ('Honorary Samantha Stogel') and 'Rochelle Applebaum' and the choice to be portrayed by actresses who in terms of exterior appearance are in contrast to actresses playing other female characters in the film? Also, how would the hair-shaving scene fit in all of that, if at all? Older, less attractive women played Jordan's "tormentors"... a judge and a federal attorney. The story is told through Jordan's eyes and he remembers these women as the kind of person he described in that speech... In Jordan's world, beautiful women were possessions, a sign of wealth. But I think the $10,000 hair-shaving scene is a complement to the Kimmie Belzer scene where she admits to receiving a $25,000 check from Jordan. He did both for the adulation and worship, using money to achieve it.
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Post by arnzilla on Dec 31, 2013 9:31:36 GMT -5
Also, how would the hair-shaving scene fit in all of that, if at all? Here's what DiCaprio had to say in the LA Times article you posted: I personally wasn't sure if she was laughing or crying. Very strange.
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Post by piglet on Dec 31, 2013 12:13:16 GMT -5
I still haven't had time to digest this fully but here are a few thoughts in no particular order:
- I don't understand how people have interpreted this movie as "glorifying" anything. To me, the characters were ridiculous and I was laughing at them, not with them. As my husband (who needs to be dragged to see any movie) said as we left the theater, "This is a slice of life, the way these guys lived." - Had the film been "tamed" from the original material, I think everyone would be bashing it for not being true to its source. I can hear, "well, they didn't show how nasty Jordan really was..." - The sex and nudity wasn't as bad as I thought, given all the comments about it. Those calling this "soft core porn" have obviously never seen soft core porn (not that innocent me has either [wink, wink]). - While these "boys behaving as boys" were clearly sexist and viewed women as objects, I didn't find the movie to be sexist. This is how men like Jordan view and treat women and the fact it's bothersome is the message. As mentioned in a review (I can't remember which), Wall Street and corporate America is sexist, both in the 1990's and today. Jordan and his cronies were like frat boys on spring break. I knew some idiots like this during my college days; thank God even in my youth I had the foresight to ignore their advances. - I find it rather ironic that many are condemning the film as "sexist" when Hollywood has been turning out sexist material for years and women in Hollywood are still not equal to men. - The funniest scene to me was when they are at the restaurant discussing their business plans. - Jordan appeared to be physically smaller at the end of the movie. Maybe it was me, but it was like he actually became that "little man" he always truly was. There were other references to his "smallness." At the beginning when he throws the midget, he says, "I'm Jordan Belfort" as we see the midget's face, then points out that he's not the midget but the guy behind him. When he and his buddies are discussing midgets, they say things like the midgets are superhuman and don't have feelings, etc. - they are actually describing themselves. It's also the only time Jordan worries about anyone's safety. And, of course, the FBI agent calls him a "small man" which infuriates Jordan. - Donnie was the most depraved character in the film. He had absolutely no morals, no insight, nothing. - They are all a bunch of losers. Jordan makes them feel like winners, but they are really losers the entire time. - The performances were great. DiCaprio was amazing and the best I've ever seen. I really thought I was watching Jordan Belfort. The brilliant physical acting surprised me. I also was impressed with Margot Robbie, particularly given she's not American. She nailed the Brooklyn girl. - The film also seemed a bit bipolar in its speed. Some moments went by in a blur and others were long and slow. I'm not sure if it was intentional (the combo coke/ludes) or just hurried editing or what. I think the movie could have been tightened, maybe by 30 or 40 minutes. That said, I wanted more of the insanity. - Back to the behavior, I couldn't help but think of the "mob mentality" while watching this. Not "mob" as in gangsters, although it applies to them, but how people behave differently in groups than individually, and often behave badly. - The head shaving scene was troubling. You could feel the woman's conflict; she was obviously feeling violated and yet she went along for the money. Was this a comment on how women will degrade themselves for money, i.e., stripping, prostitution, etc.? I don't know. But it was disturbing. - I wondered if some of the scenes were real - the Donnie choking scene or the plane exploding or the intensity of the yacht sinking - were real or figments of Jordan's drug addled brain.
Anyway, I enjoyed the movie. I found it an indictment on the American dream and our financial structure and the American obsession with excess, needing more, the idea that the bigger, more excessive, most expensive is better (that small/big thing again). Americans tend to have this "all or nothing" attitude - we love "rags to riches" stories, we don't launch wars, we launch "shock and awe," we don't have houses, we have McMansions, we don't go ga ga over the World Cup, we just go batshit, sexist, violent crazy over the Super Bowl, we're not no. 2, we're no. 1 (in our minds anyway). We think we're the strongest, biggest, "bestest," while we continue to "implode" a word used in the movie. We love to re-invent ourselves, as if we are better (redeemed) afterwards, when we really remain the same.
I don't know how anyone can watch the film, knowing what happened on Wall Street and in the U.S. financially in 2008 and not make the connection. As Jordan says when he goes to prison, he is scared but then he remembers he's rich and ends up in Club Fed. People like Jordan do get away with these things; they get a slap on the wrist, while poor kids (particularly poor black kids) dealing dope get locked up for years. I found it odd that critics were upset that Jordan wasn't more severely punished when this was what actually happened. Ironically, the movie came out at the same time the "affluenza defense" case was in the news. How could they not make this connection? (If you don't know the case, a wealthy white kid in Texas got drunk as a skunk, as they say, and caused an accident in which three people were killed. His defense was that he was given everything he wanted growing up and never learned right from wrong ("affluenza") and the defense worked!)
The people who caused the 2008 financial crisis have never been held accountable for their behavior. Instead they got bonuses and have gone right back to what they were doing before. This is exactly what Jordan did - he did his "prison" stint, then went right back to selling crap to the sheep (being, after all, a wolf). Meanwhile schmucks like the rest of us worry about losing our jobs, putting kids through college, paying the mortgage and if we'll have enough to retire.
When I left the theater, I literally felt dizzy, like I had been conned, "drugged" by Jordan. It took me several hours to feel normal again, albeit depressed. And that is what makes this a great film.
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