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Post by arnzilla on Dec 22, 2013 20:20:38 GMT -5
Does anyone have an advance screening lined up for this week?
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Post by creamtangerine on Dec 25, 2013 23:11:12 GMT -5
So this movie kicked some pretty major ass right?
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Post by arnzilla on Dec 26, 2013 9:34:37 GMT -5
I guess this is the second longest comedy ever made, right after It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World.
I literally have just a couple of minutes to drop a dime on TWOWS. Sorry. More later. Saw it at 10:30 to 1:30am last night to a mostly full house. Lots of audience reaction. Big "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" when Naomi makes her first appearance sans clothing. DiCaprio was unreal. Fearless is an understatement. Stay through all the end credits because there's a 2nd end credit track that should've been on the OST. It's an original song by Robbie Robertson sung by McC called "Money Chant."
Surprised at how close the film was to script version #1 from 2007. The reshot ending is much darker than the original prison ending. You still get the "I forgot I was rich" moment, but then in the seminar scene Belfort seems downright evil. Aged a bit, with his widow's peak very well-defined and that vintage-looking shirt, he was very vampirish. And I was wrong about a couiple of songs. Scorsese really did use "Baby Got Back" and "Insane in the Brain."
Negative comparisons to Goodfellas make little sense. Henry Hill didn't pay for his crimes either, unless you count eating marinara that tastes like ketchup. No redemption, there either. Both are about the ride and are skin-deep in characterizations. Both protagonists want to do better than their parents: the American Dream. Both are based on biographies or autobiographies and don't dwell on the victims.
And the film HAS something important to say. To paraphrase Spiderman's uncle, "with great wealth comes great responsibility."
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will
President of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters
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Post by will on Dec 26, 2013 19:07:38 GMT -5
arnzilla, thanks for your thoughts. I will also just offer a few points, because I expect the film to improve on second viewing and I want to wait till then. The film will have a significantly different/clearer reaction by international audiences. I don't know how anyone can miss that this is a condemnation of Belfort and the system that made him and continues to produce him. Or "wonder" that Scorsese is celebrating the lifestyle. How could that be when the film all but shows Belfort with devil horns. There were many laughs in the theater, mostly at the expense of the main characters, but when Belfort is giving his speeches, the reaction was cold and bitter. I also found DiCaprio to be clearly judgmental toward his character, and playing Belfort with a third eye winking at us. It seems superficial to even mention it, but the response regarding the sexual content is completely overblown. Walkouts and awkwardness, really? The men in my audience also gasped when Robbie strikes that naked pose, but it was from appreciation, not shock. About editing... I am one of those who really mind the continuity errors, but I didn't notice a single one here. I know there are many, as it has been "admitted", but what Schoonmaker says about the rhythm of the scene being a priority, was proven right in this film. The ludes "descent to the car" moment was unfortunately so hyped up that I didn't enjoy it to the max, but I did like the second part better -- from car phone to actual yanking of phone back home. Great Leo and Hill. On Hill... he was less in the film that I had anticipated but also better. Another thing I did not expect was how defining McConaughey's performance was for the film. It's not a matter of him making the most of his 5 minutes, but more about how his persona is hovering over the film. His chant was heard thrice and each time was more significant than the one before. I have some things to say about DiCaprio's performance, but for now, one thing that almost startled me was when in his second (?) speech, he almost turns into an animal. His face is taken over by this greed spasm and he becomes... different. I agree with arnzilla about the last scene. I am thankful for that last scene. Belfort is at his most evil there. It's not aging but rot that has seeped out and altered his appearance. Finally, I will say that this is the first Scorsese movie I've seen in years and years that didn't have me thinking of him while I was watching it. I know that's supposed to be good, but it feels off  Not a single thought about camera angles or song choices or cuts or anything. I felt I was thrown into that world and left to my own devices. "I won't guide you through it", Scorsese says to me, "but you will find yourself looking back at you, in the end. Will your eyes be harsh with judgement or kind with understanding?" If that's the case, it might be one of the best things he's done. I look forward to hearing from others, especially those who don't have as negative an opinion as I do of Belfort. |
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kim
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Post by kim on Dec 26, 2013 19:55:26 GMT -5
I went in with lower expectations due to the so so/mixed reactions but I really enjoyed this a lot for the most part. Could have used some trimming, and there were definitely scenes that ran on for too long but I was entertained in nearly all of the first 2 hours, its the last hour that kind of dragged. It's also one of the funniest I've seen all year. I really enjoyed the supporting cast, I can see why some thought Jonah Hill was one note but he was just hilarious, great chemistry with Leo. Margot Robbie was fiery and wished her character could of been more fleshed out but she was also good. I can definitely see her being a big star after this. Kyle Chandler was solid and Rob Reiner was hilarious especially in his first scene. Kenneth Choi, Matthew McConaughey, and Jean Dujardin stood out with their small screen times. I was hoping Cristin Milioti would get more to do but she was solid with what she had, same with Joanna Lumley. But really, this is Leo's show. This may be favorite performance of his ever, he just completely goes for it in ways he never has before and it was so surprising how loose and hilarious he was. That Lemmon quaalude scene may be the most hilarious scene in a movie I've seen all year. It's going to be a shame when he doesn't get nominated for this. I also didn't think this portrayed Belfort in a positive light and there was absolutely nothing redeemable about him by the end. Scorsese's camera work was amazing too btw, hard to believe a 71 year old man directed this. I'm disappointed by the ho hum reactions this has gotten, because I really do think while it wasn't perfect, it had a lot more going for it then it's been given credit for, it's a shame neither audiences or critics seem to have liked this much.
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Post by piglet on Dec 26, 2013 20:50:30 GMT -5
I went in with lower expectations due to the so so/mixed reactions but I really enjoyed this a lot for the most part. Could have used some trimming, and there were definitely scenes that ran on for too long but I was entertained in nearly all of the first 2 hours, its the last hour that kind of dragged. It's also one of the funniest I've seen all year. I really enjoyed the supporting cast, I can see why some thought Jonah Hill was one note but he was just hilarious, great chemistry with Leo. Margot Robbie was fiery and wished her character could of been more fleshed out but she was also good. I can definitely see her being a big star after this. Kyle Chandler was solid and Rob Reiner was hilarious especially in his first scene. Kenneth Choi, Matthew McConaughey, and Jean Dujardin stood out with their small screen times. I was hoping Cristin Milioti would get more to do but she was solid with what she had, same with Joanna Lumley. But really, this is Leo's show. This may be favorite performance of his ever, he just completely goes for it in ways he never has before and it was so surprising how loose and hilarious he was. That Lemmon quaalude scene may be the most hilarious scene in a movie I've seen all year. It's going to be a shame when he doesn't get nominated for this. I also didn't think this portrayed Belfort in a positive light and there was absolutely nothing redeemable about him by the end. Scorsese's camera work was amazing too btw, hard to believe a 71 year old man directed this. I'm disappointed by the ho hum reactions this has gotten, because I really do think while it wasn't perfect, it had a lot more going for it then it's been given credit for, it's a shame neither audiences or critics seem to have liked this much. Kim, I don't think it's fair to say audiences and critics didn't like it much - it has 10 100's on Metacritic and from some tough critics. It's just that it's divisive, mostly for reasons I don't understand (morality, lack of likable characters, etc.) |
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kim
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Post by kim on Dec 26, 2013 21:07:42 GMT -5
^^By audiences I'm mostly basing it on Twitter, lots of people were indifferent or said it was a disappointment or the worst movie they've ever seen and also it got a C cinemascore. Its expected of course, given the content of the film and what it was about. The critics seem to be mixed on it, very love-hate that's why I said critics didn't love it either. It only got 68% by top critics.
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will
President of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters
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Post by will on Dec 26, 2013 21:55:40 GMT -5
it has 10 100's on Metacritic and from some tough critics. Also, 28 out 44 metacritics (or 64%) rated it 8/10 or higher. |
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Post by bobb328 on Dec 27, 2013 1:20:29 GMT -5
I've seen the movie twice. Definitely, as with all movies, its strength and weaknesses are more apparent. Just in short, I know it used to be 4 hours or something like that but I could only imagine it being either longer at 4 hours or 30 minutes shorter around 2.5 hours. The first two acts are fantastic. Energetic scenes like whenever Smokestack Lightning comes on, or after Jordan's first speech when the camera rushes through the crowd then twists around the other direction, or the first Quaalude scene with Hill moving slowmo behind Leo's head were fantastic. I felt that some of the scenes could have been shorter. For example, the Boat scene in Italy was a little long, the scene when Hill gets Brad(?) arrested, Jordan's speech when he's about to quit but doesn't, they all seemed just a TAD too long to me on the second viewing among others as well. The directing near the end just doesn't seem as memorable as the rest of the movie. Also, I felt Jordan's downfall could have been more dramatic. It takes a quick 7 or some minutes to wrap everything up following him crashing his car. I felt it could have been expanded a little so we really saw how crushing it was to have his professional and personal lives fall apart. EX: the FBI raid was quick, as was Naomi divorcing him, and Hill betraying him.
That being said I loved this movie. It really felt like I was watching a classic the whole way through (especially the beginning scenes). The quick cuts, the humor, everything was great. My favorite thing about seeing a Scorsese movie for the first time is seeing how he decided to shoot a scene. You really realize that even though you may have been watching some good movies lately, no one alive can film a movie as creatively as Scorsese. Some of my favorite money shots were the macro shots of the quaaludes and as the camera tracks along the dollar bill while Leo does coke. The office parties were both haunting and exciting. Anyway, it's flawed, yes, but still a great movie probably my favorites Scorsese movies since (Maybe) The Departed/Goodfellas, although, The Departed had to grow on me as I imagine this will as well. Now I'm just excited for the movie I've REALLY been waiting for: Silence. Imagine what he's conjured up in 20 years of trying to get it made!
P.S. Sorry for the crappy writing AND. The nudity is way overrated, it's not even that bad.
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Post by arnzilla on Dec 27, 2013 9:45:41 GMT -5
From a man who created the cinematic character known as Jake LaMotta, it's pretty amazing that Scorsese portrays Belfort in a far worse light. BTW, another major audience reaction was when half the audience goes "oooohhhhh noooooo" when Jordan and Emma go in for the kiss, while the other half goes "ooohhhhhh yeeeeessssss." I also found it interesting that Scorsese uses that sitcom schtick of internal dialogues. He does it about four times, ie, "Is he coming on to me?" and "Is she coming on to me?" I should be seeing it for the second time tonight. About editing... I am one of those who really mind the continuity errors, but I didn't notice a single one here. I know there are many, as it has been "admitted", but what Schoonmaker says about the rhythm of the scene being a priority, was proven right in this film. The ludes "descent to the car" moment was unfortunately so hyped up that I didn't enjoy it to the max, but I did like the second part better -- from car phone to actual yanking of phone back home. Great Leo and Hill. On Hill... he was less in the film that I had anticipated but also better. Another thing I did not expect was how defining McConaughey's performance was for the film. It's not a matter of him making the most of his 5 minutes, but more about how his persona is hovering over the film. His chant was heard thrice and each time was more significant than the one before. I agree on all of this. As for continuity, it's clearly just a storytelling device that cuts out unnecessary movement. Like the "show me the check stub" scene. Instead of showing Jordan picking up his briefcase, opening it, and reaching in, Schoonmaker has him handing the paper to Donny immediately. As for plain old mismatched cuts, I didn't notice any either. |
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Post by arnzilla on Dec 27, 2013 22:59:08 GMT -5
I noticed on the second go-round that Edward Herrmann played the "Gene Hackman" role. But I see it already listed on IMDb.
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kim
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Post by kim on Dec 27, 2013 23:15:48 GMT -5
arnzilla, did this improve on rewatch? I'm watching it again tomorrow and I'm worried it may go down on viewing but I hope not. Also, do you agree with the assessment that Scorsese was neither condoning nor critiquing Belfort? That's a criticism I've been hearing by some, and they felt there was no social commentary in this film and that it didn't have much to say other then Belfort did crazy shit and had fun and then he went to jail.
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Post by arnzilla on Dec 27, 2013 23:22:25 GMT -5
I think it DID improve on rewatch, especially Margot Robbie's performance and some of the stylistic choices like the lights going on and off in the Stars and Stripes orgy. Like Raging Bull and Goodfellas, Scorsese's doing neither condoning nor critiquing, just showing. In other words, he's actually critiquing.
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kim
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Post by kim on Dec 27, 2013 23:42:19 GMT -5
Thanks! I have a feeling I may like it a lot more on rewatch actually, I didn't have the best theater experience the first time around and after reading some different theories especially about the ending I'm really intrigued to see how it changes on rewatch.
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nas78
President of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters
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Post by nas78 on Dec 28, 2013 8:40:52 GMT -5
Thanks all for your thoughts. I watched it too. Twice. My thoughts...
(I`m on vacations. So i`m gonna be very brief)...
First of all this film is not really about one corrupt individual. It`s not Belfort who is corrupt. The system is corrupt. He just lives in it.
Don`t hate the player, hate the game. U can`t go into the shit and come out clean. That`s not possible.
And by the way, Belfort was a sheep compared to today`s wolves. He destroyed a few peoples lives. Today`s wolves are destroying whole countries.
Having said that, Belfort (as portrayed in the film) was one of the most despicable human beings i have ever seen on screen.
And i`m not talking about what he did in his job. That`s irrelevant.
I`m talking about his character, his personality, the way he treated people.
He seemed like he had no conscience of his horrible behavior. I couldn`t detect any honest feeling or sincere humanity at all.
And also he presented no hints of regret about anything. He was amoral to the core. It was disturbing watching him.
The film was wild, provocative, uncompromising, hedonistic, cruel, ugly, misogynistic, explicit, sexist, loud, excessive, obscene, offensive, messy, vulgar, nuts, orgiastic, outrageous, over the top and in your face.
A decadent extravaganza like no other.
That is what i expected it to be and much much more.
For me TWOWS wasn`t a comedy. Not even a dark comedy. For me it was a very depressing film.
One of the darkest depictions of human nature i`ve seen on cinema lately.
The fact that there`s no real catharsis in the end left me with an unbearably desperate feeling and a tightness in my stomach.
That`s all for now. I got to go...
P.S. TWOWS is not my favorite film of the year but it`s up there.
More on that when i post my awards as i do every year.
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Not a single thought about camera angles or song choices or cuts or anything. I felt I was thrown into that world and left to my own devices. "I won't guide you through it", Scorsese says to me, "but you will find yourself looking back at you, in the end. Will your eyes be harsh with judgement or kind with understanding?"
