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Post by arnzilla on Nov 13, 2019 16:48:34 GMT -5
I have my ticket for Friday.
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Post by gabriel on Nov 15, 2019 19:16:24 GMT -5
My favorite scene the first time around, it's the simplest of things: Frank asking Jimmy if he would present him with the award. The way De Niro initially looks for excuses not to say it(it's not the right time), the awkwardness of it. And when Pacino accepts, even if there's gonna be a lot of people there he doesn't want to see. How emotional De Niro is in the scene, how embarrased he is, because he loves him so much. The infinite tenderness of that scene for me, it's the most moving and genuine thing, tapping into the real love and friendship between De Niro and Pacino, and how much they mean to each other. Many other things, but also, the whole film in my opinion seems scaled down to resemble something like Italianamerican of all things, the intimacy of that film. That's what this is all bout. Talk of the anti-Marvel movie, and deliberately so.
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Post by arnzilla on Nov 16, 2019 0:34:20 GMT -5
Gabriel, you're right about the intimacy of Italian American vis a vis this film. I also see The Age of Innocence, speaking in code within a certain constipation of feeling... of knowing. The movie is fucking devastating.
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Post by arnzilla on Nov 16, 2019 0:37:17 GMT -5
Wow. Fucking wow. I'm in tears.
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Post by arnzilla on Nov 16, 2019 0:42:41 GMT -5
There's always been a time when there's another Scorsese film on the horizon. This film taught me that I better get ready for another chapter. One day, there won't be another Scorsese film on the horizon. I'm in weepy mode.
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Post by arnzilla on Nov 16, 2019 0:48:27 GMT -5
230 pm showing was sold out. Applause at the end. I thought the CGI came across as makeup. That's what it looked like.
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Post by arnzilla on Nov 16, 2019 0:53:18 GMT -5
It's like Scorsese's legacy is what the film is about. Casino and Goodfellas may be more cinematically-exciting, but The Irishman makes it quite clear that it is what it is. You reap what you sow.
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Post by arnzilla on Nov 16, 2019 1:03:11 GMT -5
it's clearly a cross between Scorsese's crime films, like Goodfellas, and his spiritual films, like Last Tempatation.
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Post by arnzilla on Nov 16, 2019 1:05:55 GMT -5
A kick to the fucking gut.
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Post by gabriel on Nov 16, 2019 7:09:54 GMT -5
Yeah, great call to the endlessly beautiful The Age of Innocence, arnzilla, the "let her find her own level" type of stuff. I just fell in love with the home-movie aspect to their trip throught the highway, like the home movies in Mean Streets or Raging Bull so to speak, the emphasis on the quotidian, like the scene of them alone in the breakfast room of the motel that morning, those kinds of things. Also, the inevitability and devastation of it all, like you say: it's a foregone conclusion everything that is going to happen, both to Frank (his remorses) and Jimmy (his death), they just can't help themselves. I'm with Scorsese, for all his dimness, Frank has a basic notion of right and wrong and he pretty obviously knows he's doing bad things all along, piling sin over sin in his soul. And he can't warn Jimmy enough about what is going to happen to him, but Hoffa simply won't listen, it just won't get through his head. So in the end it happens what it has to happen, like in so many Scorsese movies, it's just about the characters slowly approaching their demise, physically and spiritually. No suspense there, just the inevitability and humanity of it all. Applause at the end of my show too. Going again today.
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Post by gabriel on Nov 16, 2019 7:24:23 GMT -5
And another favorite scene, again the simplest and most intimate of things, like the one I described above (not in the 2009 draft that we read of the Zaillian script): when Frank can't stand hearing Jimmy insulting them anymore in his office and just leaves, the humour and confusion of it all (I didn't see you were there), but again the tenderness of their relationship, De Niro taking personal offense to what his friend Pacino is saying, and the sweetness of Pacino apologizing to him, he'd never had said those things to him if he'd realized he was there. Also, talking about the 2009 draft, amazing how many things changed in the process, particularly in ways of explaining less and susbtituting voice over with actual dialogue in the scenes.
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Post by gabriel on Nov 16, 2019 7:37:26 GMT -5
Also, the vitality of Keitel in the film! Nobody is talking about him, because he's in for so little, but it was such a joy, like he would say, to see him in such great shape. Just the sight of him for instance reacting in the table to some of the jokes in the Frank Sheeran appreciation day. Joy.
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Post by leonevsscorsese on Nov 16, 2019 21:27:20 GMT -5
Was lucky enough to see in Melbourne (Geoffrey Rush was in attendance also). There is a theatre playing it for several weeks and often with 3-4 sessions a day.
The setup for the film is classic Scorsese with the rise of the Frank Sheeran character through the ranks. However, a some critics have noted, the films last act is where it approaches its subject matter in much the same way as Will Munny in Unforgiven. As with both films, Scorsese and Eastwood present classic archetypes they helped create years earlier, but they use the genre more as a comment on the consequences of their actions as violent individuals. I saw Frank much more like a William Munny than other Scorsese protagonists, as we actually see the toll his 'career' choices have had.
The relationship and connection between De Niro and Pacino is incredible and really does befit their amazing reputations and although they delivered a great pairing in Heat, this is a film where we see the two sharing plenty of screen time and developing a great on-screen relationship.
Pesci is as good as he's ever been and plays one of the most restrained performances of his career. Simply amazing.
I was also blown away by how much ground is covered in the film (historically and also by the sheer amount of scene setups). It isn't an epic film because of a long run time, but more so because of how much American history they cover and the sheer volume of the actual production. Its just massive.
The VFX was a little noticeable throughout, but no different to makeup. It will be a technology that will be barely noticeable in only a few short years. Deep fake videos are already scary enough.
As good as the film is, I am still amazed by Scorsese's variety and quality. Just think how different thematically and even stylistically his last few films have been (Hugo, Wolf of Wall Street and Silence). He often receives most plaudits for earlier films, but his 21st century output has been immense and still one of the best director filmographies of the 21st century. How many great filmmakers of the past slowly fade away from the age of 60+ with lacklustre titles that don't befit their talents? And his next film with DiCaprio and De Niro looks incredible also.
I will watch again at the cinemas before the Netflix release, but it is rare to have a film you look forward to for so long actually meet your lofty and unrealistic expectations.
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Post by arnzilla on Nov 18, 2019 13:49:23 GMT -5
I may go back to the theater tomorrow before seeing it a third time on Netflix. This time, I intend to see it more clear-eyed and less wistfully (if possible). I thought DeNiro was unspeakably moving. This tweet accurately summarizes my response to the first screening.
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Post by gabriel on Nov 18, 2019 15:07:50 GMT -5
Agreed on De Niro, arnzilla. It's so incredibly complex, because here's this guy comitting all these killings, a man who in the surface could easily be considered a bad man, and yet there's something about it all that is inextricably connected to the context around him, the loyalty he owes to Russel, etc. To me, as I said above, his remorses are there all throughout, even if Peggy doesn't seem to see them. For example, I love the bit when Frank receives the award in the appreciation night and he begins by saying he doesn't deserve that, and Scorsese inmediately cuts to Peggy's reaction in the audience to that line, like she's surprised to hear such a thing from him. But then he makes a joke and the ambivalence comes in again, is he really remorseful for the things he does or not? Also when the FBI agents visit him in the hospital and offer him all these reasons why he could help them and others by confessing what happened, but he doesn't tell them anything. Is that proof that he doesn't feel remorse?, that he doesn't care? To me it's not that simple, and that's why De Niro moves me so much in the film. I don't know about comparisons with Unforgiven, I think you don't have to leave Scorsese's own career to shed some light on to this. To me, in the end this is another chapter in the long meditation about forgiveness and redemption in his career. I'll go out on a limb and say that Frank Sheeran gives me hope in the end, much like Teddy in Shutter Island, Frank Pierce in Bringing Out the Dead or La Motta in Raging Bull.
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